Noodling....

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Expand view Topic review: Noodling....

Re: Noodling....

by Outdoorsfool » January 5th, 2005, 2:11 pm

But I'm still confused as to how you can "release" a fish that doesn't meet length limits. That makes zero sense to me. Does MDC not know how fish are generally "noodled". If the fish is dead or death is imminent after being noodled, what is the purpose of releasing it? It won't live to breed, why shouldn't it be kept and eaten.
Another thing, wasn't the major concern on breeding age fish? Since when did only fish less than 22 inches breed?

Re: Noodling....

by bullitt » January 4th, 2005, 11:32 pm

I hope they have to carry a big, sticky, yellow noodler permit in addition to all the other big, sticky, yellow permits the dumas' from the MDC make us carry. Image

Re: Noodling....

by fish » January 3rd, 2005, 9:42 pm

Tigerhaze - Yeah its gonna happen on closed rivers. It is happening now(well, not right now) but the thought is if you want to noodle why take a chance on getting your Image busted on a closed river when you have an open one 20 miles away. Thems that do it in areas with no open river nearby, well, they will keep on taking their chances. An your right when you have 1,2 agents per county( an a bunch of MoCraigs living in it Image Image ) it is tough to keep on top of everything.

Re: Noodling....

by Rafe Hollister » January 3rd, 2005, 3:32 pm

I'm guessing that, like (almost) everything else, there's a factor of safety built into the regs. In other words, they're accounting for some of that to happen and are choosing locations that it won't hurt that much if it does happen.

Just like they're figuring some poopoo-for-brains will take a shot at a flock of turkey with a 10 ga. in the fall and kill 2 birds. Now that they've seen it's not that big of a deal, they're gonna allow 2 birds in a day.

Re: Noodling....

by Tigerhaze » January 3rd, 2005, 3:23 pm

fish said:
Anywho, don't get your shorts in a wad over this. It will be monitored closely. Trust me on this !!! Image

- fish Image Image

I know you're "in the know" on these issues, but it strikes me that the most abuse of noodling is going to be on "closed" rivers nearby to the open rivers that are minimally monitored. For example, the Fabius is one of the test rivers. What is going to stop noodlers from going over to the Fox River, Wyakonda River, or Chariton River and then stating when stopped that they got these cats on the Fabius? What is going to keep them from strecthing the season length a little bit? Of course, noodling goes on now so in that respect there is not much difference in that thieves don't respect the law. I just think that MDC doesn't have enough enforcement "manpower" to adequately police the impacts from these reg changes.

Re: Noodling....

by bullitt » January 2nd, 2005, 12:58 pm

My shorts a in a constant state of waddedness. I think it will be very tough to monitor.
What really needs to be monitored is noodlers putting junk in the river to fish out of. Hot water heater tanks and drain pipe is often used to set up a milk run. I don't want a bunch of crap sunk in the river.
right now it doesn't affect us on this side of the state.

Re: Noodling....

by fish » January 1st, 2005, 6:18 pm

By ODF
Therefore they know exactly how many fish can be taken without any effect on future breeding and are prepared to close the season as soon as that number of fish are taken. Is that what you're trying to tell me? Hmmm...I might owe fish an apology. If he knows all this, then he's a lot smarter than he looks.
Image

I heard that ODF!!! Image

...an yes you can get pretty dang close the numbers of fish in a stretch of water by using various sampling methods(I don't feel like going into detail)...an yes there are scientific methods of predicting recruitment (survival) of young into the population(I don't feel like going into detail on this either)

Anywho, don't get your shorts in a wad over this. It will be monitored closely. Trust me on this !!! Image

- fish Image Image

Re: Noodling....

by Wolfman » January 1st, 2005, 5:49 pm

Couple of points to ponder.
Hand fishing was made illegal in MO due to the impact on breeding sized cats. Started and primarily pushed for by hand fishermen themselves years ago.

The proposed limit of 5 fish and length limit of OVER 24 inchs dosent seem to make much sense if the breeding pop is what you want to protect.
Especialy with limits such as what we have below bagnel and truman dam. 4 fish limits and only one fish OVER 24 inchs.
Now they open a season to target the prime breeders during the breeding season. Can someone say Greased Palms and political favors???

Noodlers from the 3 states mentioned have pushed as hard or harder for MO to have a season then the missourians themselves have. You will see a LARGE influx of out of state hand fishermen during the limited season. Count on it!

Hand fishing is as hard on if not harder on the cats then rod and reel fishing. Expect to see some nice cats belly up along these rivers.

Basicly the MDC has chit in its hat on this one!

Hobiecat, go to a noodeling get together sometime. You can usualy tell the older experianced noodlers by the multitude of scars up and down their arms plus their usualy missing a finger or two.
There's a LOT more beavers now days then they used to be when noodling was popular. Ever have ahold of a pi$$ed of beaver? Id rather play with the mean junkyard dog!

We're just starting to see some real quality record size cats show up after years of commercial fishing and overfishing of the larger cats. Getting rod and reel fishermen to release those large breeding size cats that seem healthy and strong. Now the MDC decides to come along and blow about 10-20 years of work right out of the water.
Hell, who needs limits. Lets just keep em all big n small.

Re: Noodling....

by Outdoorsfool » December 29th, 2004, 4:18 pm

I hear ya PS! My dad has stories of his younger days when he and some of the crew from the St. Joe stockyards would load the boat up with coolers and hit the Missouri around St. Joe. They'd be ripped to shreds, frequently above the elbows, from reaching down the fish's throat as far as they could and then holding on for the ride. Releasing a catfish after this makes about as much sense as releasing a gut-hooked trout or bass that is under the legal limit.

Re: Noodling....

by hobiecat » December 29th, 2004, 4:13 pm

I can tell ya'all this, I'm sure gonna try it! Wait til the chicks hear that I catch giant catfish with my bare hands. They'll think I'm such a manly man, I'll hafta beat'em off with a stick! Man this is gonna be great!!

Re: Noodling....

by Tigerhaze » December 29th, 2004, 4:06 pm

Don't forget muskrats or beavers..... Image

Re: Noodling....

by PoisonSnake » December 29th, 2004, 3:58 pm

That is what I kindof thought OF. From what I have seen, they go deep into the fishes throat or whatever to bring him up. I can't imagine how they could live. I can tell you this; I won't be doing this crazy poopoo any too soon. I don't like the thought of big snakes, alligator snappers, or sticking my arm anywhere I cannot see. Image

Re: Noodling....

by Outdoorsfool » December 29th, 2004, 3:41 pm

Is the length limit realistically going to keep fish under 24" from dying? I'm not all that familiar with noodling other than stories I've heard from my dad and grandad who used to noodle the Missouri. Generally these fish are not grabbed by their lips and pulled to the surface. They are either grabbed by the gill flaps/gills or deep in the throat. After being wrestled to the surface in this manner, can a 22" flathead be released and expected to live?

Re: Noodling....

by Tigerhaze » December 29th, 2004, 2:40 pm

This is taken from a post on another site-I am not sure which paper it is from.

COLUMBIA, Mo. - Next summer, it will be legal to plunge into some Missouri rivers and grab catfish by hand - a type of fishing that is not for the faint of heart.

Known variously as noodling or hogging, handfishing has long been a misdemeanor punishable by fines, because state officials fear it depletes breeding-age catfish. It can also be dangerous: Noodlers hold their breath for long periods under water and sometimes come up with fistfuls of agitated snakes or snapping turtles instead of fish.

That does not discourage enthusiasts, who insist there is great sportsmanship in fishing with your bare hands.

So after years of urging by noodlers, and lopsided legislative support for easing up on handfishers, the Missouri Conservation Commission has approved an experimental handfishing season next summer. Forms of handfishing are already legal in 11 states, including neighboring Oklahoma, Arkansas and Illinois.

"It's a start," John Smith, deputy director of the Conservation Department, said Tuesday. "We are moving forward in good faith to answer the legitimate biological concerns that we have, and balance that with the requests for making this process legal."

Missouri's biological concerns are that handfishers, who go for the biggest fish they can wrestle from riverbanks or hollow logs, will take too many sexually mature fish from their underwater nests.

The commission agreed to a June 1-July 15 season, during which handfishers who have bought a $7 permit can use only their bare hands and feet to catch a daily total of five catfish. Fish under 22 inches long must be thrown back.

Handfishing will be legal only along specified stretches of the Fabius, St. Francis and Mississippi rivers.

So secretive are handfishers that they have formed a club called Noodlers Anonymous. A University of Missouri-Columbia professor who got the group's cooperation in surveying its members found that most are men, average age about 40, living in rural areas.

Howard Ramsey of Paris, Mo., president of Noodlers Anonymous, said the season is a "very positive step."

"I hope this is the first step toward a statewide noodling season," Ramsey said. "Noodling is great fun and very satisfying and any lover of fishing should try it"


I think MDC has gone down the wrong path on this issue. While noodling is by no means easy, I think that the daily limit of 5 cats and no maximum length limit is going to hurt the breeding populations of cats on those rivers. I don't have data to back that up, but that is my gut feeling.

I also think the die-hard noodlers are going to use the limited season as an excuse for poaching them outside of the short season and outside of the designated river boundaries, unless MDC plans to do some aggressive enforcement. I already see evidence of noodling in areas I fish, before it became legal.

I also wouldn't be surprised if someone inexperienced at noodling gets seriously injured or killed this next season trying to be a macho man against a large cat.

Re: Noodling....

by Outdoorsfool » December 29th, 2004, 2:07 pm

Rafe - where I come from, "loggin" is what you do to the forest. Somehow, I have a feeling in Central IL "loggin" was something your "buddy" did to you on a snipe hunt.

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