OutdoorMissouri.com

Very well written!

MOCraig,
Thanks for the ethics lesson. I would agree with you that no one here would actually abdicate shooting, killing, blowing up, ect., the illegal?s that are here or trying to come here. I also agree with a lot of your other points (ie: Mexico sucks, people are frustrated, and so on), but I think the frustration is not that people are come to America, but people are coming here and wanting it to be Mexico.

I've watched these protest in which large numbers of people are carrying signs that scream out their Mexican heritage. I even saw one that said "Viva Mexico". If Mexico is so great, go back.

One of the things that has made this country so strong is the diverse heritage that immigrants have brought with them, BUT the one thing they all wanted was to be "Americans". Many immigrants would not allow their children to speak their native language, because they wanted their kids to assimilate into American life. The people that are coming here illegally want the benefits of being an American, but don't want to make the commitment to being American.

Personally, I think the naturalization process should be streamlined to make it easier to gain citizenship. The trade off would be that they assimilate to American culture, and for gods sake, speaker our language.

I'm tired of having to hear Spanish prompts, and they fact that we "need" to offer "English as a Second Language" class to our schools curriculum.

Also, these people need to get on the tax dole. They need to contribute to the American way, and not be a drain on its resources.

I'm in the mood for some enchilads. Carry on....and such.

MOC- Good post, and no, I don't know anyone who truly wants to murder folks crossing the boarder. The issue is protecting our country/border/culture though. Every nation worth its salt does it.

I have worked landscaping ,side by side with illegals. They are good folks. Most don't want any trouble at all, only to get ahead. And working for $7.50 p/hr is hitting the jackpot for a Mexican. The man I worked with most, Manuel, was about mid 40's, and hired another man to work his farm in Mexico, while he worked labor in St Louis suburbs.

Also, our boss gave a bonus to each illegal that was brought in, to whoever got them there. One of the long term illegal workers, made trips to the border every spring to bring in as many as he could. Free money as far as he was concerned.

Nobody blames them for comming here, any intellegent person would. The issue is we as Americans have the right to expect that our border and culture will be protected by laws, actions, and policies of the US. The gov't is letting us down, and I'm afraid there will be cases of violent rioting, beating, and even murder before this whole situation is sorted out. Sad, but unless the gov't gets a grip on this quick, it is inevitable imo.

My family has been in MO since it was a territory, pre-statehood. I have a difficult time coming to terms with what is right on this issue, but protecting our borders is not at all wrong.

The Fed gov't is letting us down. I bet you though, that if the states had control of their own border protection, they would find an efficient way to cut out a lot of the illegals that are sneaking in.

I know that amnesty is not acceptable. I also know that these people will continue to come, until we focibly put a stop to it. It's a sticky situation to be in, but we are in the right to demand that the illegal immigration situation needs to be resolved, with what is right for the US citizens being priority number one.

MOCraig,
I my opinion (and take it for what it's worth), is that as soon as the immigrants have a stock in the country, the patriotism will come. By that, I mean as soon as they start paying taxes, and having some responsibility to their fellow citizen, then they will start feeling the "pride of ownership". Then, if they don't, and do illegal things, prosecute them.

Steamlining will speed things up, but I also agree with Dave. The borders need to be secured, and then there needs to be a process.

Just another example of the Man trying to keep me down!

Hey, let's all move to Mexico. That'll teach em.



Honestly, a big concern is the implication of MILLIONS of illegals in this country with no medical coverage growing everyday. I have read multiple articles of southwestern and west-coast hospitals feeling serious cramps from treating illegals who, of course, have no medical coverage nor ever pay any part of their bills. Perhaps, you all will sing a different tune when your hospital have to close down.



I also disagree with any streamlining or expediting natralization of ANYONE who enters a country illegally. I work with a woman from Poland who had to wait 10 friggin' years to get a work VISA to our country. And now with all the immigration nightmares, she will have to wait at least five more years to have an opportuninty to get naturalized. Now, that's just her. Her children and husband have to wait even longer. Boys, it's total crap that people can just cheat their way through while others wait on the line and file endless paperwork for YEARS!!!



I do not deny anyone the right to better themselves, but for fukc's sake...

WTF? You don't understand the problem? The problem is obvious. A third world nation next to us, that would like to come here and have all of the same pay and bennefits that US citizens do. And borders open enough that anyone willing to give the effort can walk right in. That's the problem.

Legally we can put a stop to it, by detaining those that we catch, and deporting them, or by making it almost impossible to get across the border. Either way, we need to put enough staff down there to handle the situation.

If we don't have the fortitude to physically make them go back, then put up a wall/fence/moat. I belive fixed fortifications are a testiment to the stupidity of mankind (Patton), but doing nothing is so longer an option.

MOcraig I think the problem is understood, we have people crossing into our country illegally and there are curtain persons in high places that want the cheap labor namely every business along the border that have so called "sweat shops". These places make big money on the cheap labor and probably share that dividend with the local pollitions and so on. The way to stop the illegals is to stop the available work for them. Levying heavy fines on companies caught with illegals, activate the national Guard and along with the INS do a business to business search round up the illegals and then levy an export tax on them (charge the Mexican government) by way of refusing shipments of goods from there and start costing the Mexican Government more than they would lose beefing up their side of the border.

Well then their problems (high unemployment, poverty, poor living conditions and a government that doesn't care)are the problems and there is nothing WE can do there to change the problems unless we take Mexico through economic or military forces away from the government that doesn't care and make Mexico a State.

LA,
When I suggested streamlining the process, I meant it for all immigrants, not just Mexicans. I have a freind, in my office, who also is going through the endless red tape that it takes to become naturalized. IT is very difficult. Some of the time it takes is based on old procedures and technologies. I truely believe that the same kind of screening process can be done better and faster with todays technologies, but there beauracrats that are protecting jobs and budgets.

MOCraig,
I'm not sure if I understand all of your bantering around, but I get the impression that you think it might be "our" responsibility to make things better in old Mexico.

MOCraig said:

There's no denying there are some very real problems created with the issue. LA, would you personally turn away a sick child who needs care?

You know I don't do pediatrics.... so yep... no problemo there. I have given chemo to a Mexican woman who was an illegal. She died about six months later, and her bills were never paid to the hospital or the funeral home, as I understood.



I'm sorry to disagree with you, Craig, but health care is not free... as you are well aware. AND don't tell me socialized medicine is the way to go either... you know how long you wait in an ER now? Try to multiply that by a hundred or a million. Ask an few Canadians with cancer how they are enjoying it... you can't... you know why?... most of them are dead. The ones that can afford it, come to the US for their treatment. That's a debate for another time, however.



CC~ I understand what you are saying. I do not have a fair understanding of the immigration laws or process other than what I have heard from immigrant patients and coworkers. The process is incredibly slow, and should be to an extent. Shouldn't people who wish to be here and have the benefits our nation provides go through some process? But the illegal situation only slows those processes.



I'm just saying it shouldn't be as easy as climbing under a rancher's fence... that's all. I mean helll, when we travel abroad, we have to go through customs!

You never said it was "free." You implied I would treat a sick child knowing that the care given would go uncompensated. Meaning.... basically.... in a round about sorta way.... FREE! Never bullchit a bullchitter! Relax... I'm kidding.

I mentioned socialized medicine just in case that was your next reply... knowing I gotta clean house and may not be here to argue such a point.

There are 4 solutions 1) do nothing. 2)make it easier to become a citizen. 3)make what they have worth more.

1) Let the crossings go on catch them and send them home over and over again.
2) open the borders and let anyone who wants to come in do so just by signing their name.
3) Take all the illegals to a public area broadcast over national TV and execute all of them and let it be known that it will happen every time people are caught.
4) Take Mexico away from it's uncaring leaders.

Big John said:
There are 4 solutions 1) do nothing. 2)make it easier to become a citizen. 3)make what they have worth more.

1) Let the crossings go on catch them and send them home over and over again.
2) open the borders and let anyone who wants to come in do so just by signing their name.
3) Take all the illegals to a public area broadcast over national TV and execute all of them and let it be known that it will happen every time people are caught.
4) Take Mexico away from it's uncaring leaders.

Is that 4 or 7? All were brilliant ideas, though, Beej. Especially the televised mass execution. You should run for office.

Also, your first #3, where you propose making what they have worth more...Pure genius.