Illegal Immigrants

[Warmouth]

Why, is because of PC thinking.



Also it takes a lot of time to get here legally because it is worth it. The side bennefit is that you can "monitor" the individual and see what trouble they've gotten into, if any, while on their visa. It gives them time to assimilate to our culture, before they have all of the rights and privleges of citizens.



I'm all for it taking a lot of time to become a US citizen. What other country in the world biches about 5% unemployment? The Mexican (and French) govt would cream themselves if they could boast about those type of employment numbers.

[LadyAngler]

CRAIG~

WTF? Why I oughta kick your donkey. It's not so easy to debate an issue over an internet board where tone of voice and talking points are all given the same weight in black and white.



To answer your previous question.... NO... I don't know what you think about the issue, mostly because you are sitting the proverbial fence. It's clear you live in a corporate world where talk is inflated and blown about yet never actually says anything with true clarity. That was a joke, BTW.



IMO... The problem isn't being fixed expeditiously because the "fat cats" are loving the cheap ride these illegals provide with their cheap labor and no benefits. These buisinessmen are then giving monetary kick backs to those of power who make decisions regarding the issue. It's a cycle that has gotten outta hand. Now that the public see it is a problem, those of power have no choice but to pretend to address the issue. Will anything actually happen... only time will tell.



Oh yeah... kiss my !

[Big John]

The last 3 were explainations of how to achieve the choices.

[Big John]

Southwest border counties?the 24 counties adjoining the Mexican border?are facing a medical emergency. A score of federal and state policies, such as declining federal Medicaid reimbursements and rising professional liability insurance costs, are contributing to an imminent health care crisis. The disproportionate burden placed on southwest border counties for providing emergency healthcare services to undocumented immigrants is compounding an already alarming state of affairs. In 2000, the Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) apprehended over 1.5 million undocumented immigrants?a fraction of the individuals that either entered the United States without detection or over-stayed their entry visas. They come for various reasons, but many end up needing emergency medical care they cannot afford. Uncompensated care is the unreimbursed or uncollectable costs incurred by any medical provider for providing healthcare services. The federal government defines a medical emergency as a condition with a sudden onset that could expect to result in a person?s serious bodily harm or death if not immediately treated. Every state and county along the southwest border has approached the issue of uncompensated emergency health care services differently. However, as the number of undocumented immigrants in the country has escalated, state and local governments have increasingly stepped up to the plate to cover the cost of uncompensated care. A poll conducted in November 2000 by Fingerhut Granados Opinion Research established that Americans believe, by a margin of almost six to one, that the federal government rather than local government should pay for emergency medical services provided to undocumented immigrants. While the majority of Americans feel the federal government should pay for this care, to date, researchers have had little success defining the size of the problem. In fiscal year 2001, Senator Jon Kyl of Arizona secured funds for the U.S./Mexico Border Counties Coalition (USMBCC) to: ?determine the unreimbursed costs incurred to treat undocumented aliens for medical emergencies in southwest border States, their border counties, and hospitals within the jurisdiction of these States and counties.? The USMBCC hired MGT of America, Inc. (MGT) in the fall of 2001 to conduct the analysis.
Estimating the Cost of Uncompensated Care
According to the American Hospital Association annual survey, southwest border county hospitals reported uncompensated care totaling nearly $832 million in 2000. Using an advanced statistical modeling approach, MGT determined that almost $190 million or about 25 percent of the uncompensated costs these hospitals incurred resulted from emergency medical treatment provided to undocumented immigrants. To develop our cost estimate, we compared reported levels of uncompensated hospital care and socio-economic factors such as poverty rates, median age, and net domestic migration in non-border counties to border counties. We found a statistically significant difference between the amount of uncompensated care delivered in border counties versus non-border counties. We attribute this difference to undocumented immigrants who seek emergency medical care in southwest border counties. Using a separate methodology, MGT estimated that emergency medical services (EMS) providers incurred another $13 million in uncompensated costs in 2000. Here we used the County Business Patterns data set and the average percent of uncompensated care reported on our survey of border EMS providers to estimate the cost.
Together the costs of emergency hospital and transportation services exceeded $200 million. Yet, this figure does not represent the total costs borne by southwest border counties and local medical providers. In The problem of uncompensated emergency services has far reaching implications beyond loss of hospital revenues. Health care costs and insurance premiums are rising, due in part to burgeoning levels of uncompensated care. Rising health insurance premiums are threatening business? ability, particularly small business, to offer employees affordable health care benefits. High liability costs and low levels of compensation are threatening the viability of emergency rooms and emergency transportation providers along the border. Some counties with high rates of uncompensated care can no longer afford to provide ?charity? care for local needy residents. In some instances, high levels of unpaid medical bills related to undocumented immigrants have forced local healthcare providers to reduce staffing, increase rates, and cut back services.
Findings
Our findings are based on an extensive literature review, policy analysis, field research, statistical modeling exercise, and written surveys of southwest border hospitals and emergency transportation providers. Our study found:

? State and local governments and local healthcare providers absorb a large portion of the costs of providing uncompensated emergency medical care to undocumented immigrants. These costs impose a significant financial burden on southwest border hospitals? and emergency medical services (EMS) providers, and account for an estimated 25 percent of hospitals uncompensated costs.
? No standard method to track the amount of uncompensated care provided to undocumented immigrants currently exists. The absence of Social Security Numbers (SSN), in combination with other factors, may provide the federal government with an adequate proxy to enable tracking of aggregate amounts of uncompensated emergency care delivered to undocumented immigrants.
? The Emergency Medical and Treatment and Active Labor Act (EMTALA) requires hospitals and emergency personnel to screen, treat and stabilize anyone who seeks emergency medical care regardless of income or immigration status. Under Emergency Medicaid, the federal government pays for some emergency medical care delivered to undocumented immigrants who, except for their immigration status, would be eligible for Medicaid. EMTALA mandates conflict with Emergency Medicaid reimbursement policies to the extent that EMTALA requires screening and treatment beyond those covered under the Medicaid ?emergency condition? definition.
? Our survey and field research suggest that the Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) continues to bring injured and ill undocumented immigrants to hospital emergency rooms without taking financial responsibility for their medical care.
Recommendations
Some members of Congress are addressing the issue of uncompensated emergency medical services and have filed legislation to address the lack of adequate federal reimbursement for emergency medical treatment provided to undocumented immigrants. In light of our study?s findings, we propose the following recommendations:

? Congress should provide additional federal funding to reimburse hospitals, emergency transportation providers, and other health providers for care provided to undocumented immigrants.
? Congress should take into account the additional losses incurred by southwest border counties related to the treatment and transport of undocumented immigrants when developing federal funding proposals designed to offset relevant losses.
? Congress should require hospitals and emergency medical providers seeking federal funds to pay for uncompensated emergency medical services, to approximate the number of undocumented immigrants provided uncompensated emergency care using the absence of a Social Security Number as the principal proxy.
? Congress should direct the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services (CMS) to extend Medicaid reimbursement for post-stabilization treatment for otherwise eligible individuals whose treatment results from a qualified emergency as defined by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services.
? Congress should appropriate funds for the INS to pay for emergency medical services that result from search and rescue or apprehension activities the INS initiates.
? Congress should direct the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (DHHS) to work with the states and the INS to develop a formal process that would allow hospitals and emergency transportation providers to determine an individual?s immigration status and submit federal reimbursement requests without violating EMTALA?s provision against asking a patient?s status prior to delivering treatment.
Areas for Additional Research
Our examination of the costs associated with uncompensated emergency medical care provided in southwest border counties suggests areas needing additional study. In particular, the following areas merit further research and analysis:
? Cost of emergency medical services provided by physicians.
? Cost of medical care such as rehabilitation and other extended care that is not included in the current federal definition of an emergency medical condition.
? Changes to Medicaid that could make it easier for hospitals and other medical providers to receive reimbursement for treating certain categories of patients who meet Medicaid categorical eligibility.
The need for federal action is clear. The growing medical emergency on the southwest border has far reaching implications, not only for the southwest border, but for the nation as a whole.

[LadyAngler]

You think there is no corruption in play here? C'mon. How much do you think Tyson alone saves annually with employing illegals in lue of Americans? I know you have an idea.

[hobiecat]

Mike Tyson?? I thought he was broke??!

[Warmouth]

Ask the Sedalia plant manager about it. There's more Mexicans in Knob Knoster and Sedalia than the national average .

[LadyAngler]

Ummmm... Craig, if they are illegals they can't be "legally" employed anywhere!

And "some companies" benefit? C'mon! ANY company employing illegals IS the frickin' problem! If there weren't places for illegals to work there would be little reason for them to cross the border in frickin herds. This includes landscaping or agricultural companies, giant factories or even private households. I'm not going to pretend I can solve the world's problems in an afternoon on the internet, but I do think tighter regulations for employment might begin to dent this situation.

[LadyAngler]

I'm sure it has been, yet doesn't seem as though it's being actively implemented, huh?

[LadyAngler]

If the regs "just aren't enough," there are not "plenty." Or let me repharse that... plenty of enforcement.



Very astute, Craig... no... staff nurses do not hire or fire, but I have been involved with plenty of policy making, and it's generally a buncha BS. A few talking heads with a genuine desire to hear themselves speak and very little action other than the smelling of their own flatulance with great pride and joy. Such people generally have little or no understanding of the actual situation or how to clearly define the problem. The policy writing is then "delegated" to a group of "do-ers" who actually do the work of writing the policy, which then is "revised" by the heads, which basically means peppered with some jargon and buzz words. Then implemented. Sound familiar to anyone else?



I have already said I don't know enough about the issue to solve it alone, but don't you feel someone somewhere needs to? Boy, I sound bitter today. Don't take it personally.

[LadyAngler]

Do you realize how retarded that sounds? I have to quote you, to point out how ridiculous what you are saying actually is coming across. Craig, what purpose do regulations serve? That's right, they regulate. So now... stay with me.... if the regualtions aren't actually regulating... there is a problem, either in the implementation or in the enforcement. Somewhere the "chain" is broken. True, this is not a perfect world. BUT, I ask, what is the pupose of having laws when no one follows them OR no one enforces them? So are you saying we should throw our hands up and decide there is no resolution?



Besides, how can anyone debate you when you take no position? Also... when common sense is being exercised, it shouldn't EVER seem like original thought.



EDIT: Your edit catches me after the fact, again. True... I am hormonal, but Dave won't be dealing with any hormonal changes (other than my growing boobs). Why do you think I'm fighting with you? Gets it outta my system. I'm sure, he thanks you.

[Warmouth]

MOCraig said:

I'm guessing it's hormonal, and Dave will be dealing with it at home.

Anyway.



I don't give a rat fuk about illegal foriegners or their supposed "rights". Turn them away from hospitols, schools, jobs, gov't subsidies, and every other bennefit they thing they have comming.



This deal needs to be started, implemented and handled where it starts, the border. It's as close to a bottle neck as we have to work with, 700-900miles or so. (thinking like a hunter )



Employers will hire the cheepest labor available, and legal or not, it's vey tempting, too tempting.



There isn't enough manpower in INS to find them all, or ship them out. It's time to up the work force in this area.

Put more people on the border. Even the measly Minute Men effort did something to stall the masses trying to get in.



Do some real raids, and some real fines, even jail time for employers of illegals. Make it too risky for MOC's bro in-law to try to hide these illegals. I agree that we have laws on the books, now enforce them. No breaks. It would work if the reg's are just gov't lip service, and white collar guys started doing 3-5 in prison. Prison azs rape is a great deterrent in my mind.



Why go to such extremes? Look at fuking France. Tell me that isn't the US in 30yrs, with very high immigrant populations, a weak economy that can't compete in the world market, and unemployment around 22%. Yes they are more socialist than us, but look at political trends in the last 40-60yrs and tell me that we're not heading towards it.

[Big John]

LA are you agreeing with me in a strange sort of way?

Big John said:
Want to stop illegals? Here is how buy their country. As a state there would be no reason to have a border to cross illegally, there would soon be companies going down there to get the cheaper labor IE (Minimum Wage) workers who probably would flock to the doors, all the Mexicans who were in the "now US" would lose their jobs trying to get more pay for the same amount of work they were doing and last but not least the workers in Mexico our 51st state would be paying taxes and social security thus boosting SS up and all for the cost of a weeks stay @ the Hilton.

[LadyAngler]

Ummm... Craig.... it's A-mer-i-CUN! Learn your friggin' hillbilly speech... we "simpletons" can't understand no learnin' talk.

[Hellbender]

The real simpletons are in Washington, and they don't have a clue how to solve the problem.
fact is we need the labor and they don't take that many jobs from Americans, if any. They do however need to make a wage that won't undercut Americans, pay there share of taxes for the system they use, we need to know when they're coming, where they're at, and they need to go home when there's no work left.
If we get that solved then we can start getting serious about any illegals still here.
The last thing we need is to give them citizenship, college loans and an attitude that they're too good to do menial jobs, which is what happens. We need workers to do the crappy jobs, not more citizens.