Backyard bucks....

[SAMCRO]

Well, Dave, we already know about north missouri. Woods' point is to demostrate that you can grow big bucks anywhere, and he's doing it.

[Triton X2]

Yeah, it was Grant woods...Samcro

There arent many of those big bucks down here but there are a few...He said there were NO 160 class deer down here....I wasnt impressed with his theatrics at all...

[PoisonSnake]

A friend of mine had breakfast with Woods at the ATA show a couple of weeks back. He made mention of the amount of timber and rock he had removed from those mountains. Further, he indicated having hauled dirt in as well. Seemed like a major endeavor when in the end he could have simply purchased ground elsewhere. If he truly had dirt hauled in so that he could get the soil quality needed to grow decent plots, then he defeated the purpose of his mission to begin with other than to show that nutrition (not genetics) is the key to growing big deer.

I'm not sure which is the major contributor towards growing big deer. But, I am certain that I would like to have some of the deer that are running around about 10 miles to the south of me in our area as well. Lord knows we have the food. We have good deer on and around the HFA. But, we have no superfreaks to make mention of.

[lonepine]

[SAMCRO]

Are there other "easier" approaches to growing big deer than what Woods' is doing? Sure, but I'm not sure that was the point, and I'm not sure he was looking for the known, easier ways, either. I read up a little on what he's doing. He maintains a blog of sorts on the project. I don't think Woods is an idiot, and I do think he knows more about growing big deer than those of us who post here, so I guess I'm not judging him.

If you read about it, he addresses that there are clearly more established ways of growing deer. But he also says that he wanted to show that you can take a piece of ground, and improve the deer on it, using hard work.

Also, Triton, you can think what you want about big deer, but you do realize that, at least at the time Woods purchased the ground, there were NO Pope and Young or Boone and Crockett entries for the County? Sure, that doesn't mean there weren't any 160's running around, but it does imply there weren't very many.

I have no real dog in this fight, as I don't give a chit, but I know what's interesting to me, and this is. It's a 1500 acre chunk of Ozark ground he named "The Proving Grounds". He said when he surveyed it right after purchase, he saw one deer, and counted 11 tracks, and declared it worse than public ground.

So far, he's cut down 500 acres of cedars, and burned them, with more to come. I didn't realize it, but cedars offer no food value and consume a lot of water that other plants could be using, so they are not desireable. Apparently, these same 500 acres now have reverted to grasses.

I guess that's not all of the tree work, though, as he describes an ongoing "Timber Stand Improvement" project,, where they're getting rid of trees like locusts and cedars.

As far as hauling in dirt, he's not doing that. Says, and we know, that plots don't grow for chit because of the amount of rock thats in the soil. So, he hauls in humified compost and spreads it in the plots. Guess it works, and lets things grow in that chit Ozark dirt, all without cultivating equipment.

Does it work? Guess they're killing good deer now. He claimslast fall there were 79 bucks that lived on this place now, and that 15 of them are big. Some P&Y and some B&C.

Guy lives on this place, and is using what he knows and teaches about to prove that hard work can get you good deer in places that traditionally suck. Sure, that's time and money, but price north missouri ground vs. ozark chit ground, and you might come out ahead. That is, if you're willing to get a little dirty.

[RB]

SC, interesting review of the issue. Actually I could have saved him a lot of money and time if he had asked. It's all about genetics and nutrition. If you have bad genetics and good food you have monster mutants. Good genetics and no nutrition you gets skinny basket racks. If you have both you have good deer. That's my .02

[PoisonSnake]

SC: I don't see how he can be coming out ahead on cost really giving the proximity of his land near to Branson. Could be wrong on that. Maybe he paid only $500/acre. I think it is amazing what he has done though. Humidified compost? Dirt? That is all relative albeit I don't know exactly what humidified compost actually is. Interestingly though... it appears that from his study, nutrition is the key element towards growing big deer as compared to genetics. If it were Kroll, you can bet he would have a couple pen-raised deer to supplement the genetics of a given area.

I've always kind of wondered why he chose that particular area. Was his wife from there????

[PoisonSnake]

Like most composts, humidified compost is made using a combination of manure and leaves. However, it is inoculated with additional additives that increase microorganism levels and stabilize nitrogen levels.

I bet this chit is more expensive than dirt.

Also, throughout the history of Archery Big Bucks of Missouri, there is one entry from Taney County (assuming his farm is in Taney County). It nets 129 2/8". Not a lot of big deer down there for certain.

[RB]

Like most composts, humidified compost is made using a combination of manure and leaves. However, it is inoculated with additional additives that increase microorganism levels and stabilize nitrogen levels.

I bet this chit is more expensive than dirt.

Also, throughout the history of Archery Big Bucks of Missouri, there is one entry from Taney County (assuming his farm is in Taney County). It nets 129 2/8". Not a lot of big deer down there for certain.

PS, that must be the molecular level analysis of the shit.

[PoisonSnake]

Never heard of it. But, rethinking it a bit, it might be cheaper than dirt. It may take a bit of $ to haul in good dirt down in that part of the country. Compost from a decent cattle farm close in proximity might be cheaper to haul. That being said, it sounds like Dr. Woods is dealing with chit on the molecular level and not just your old run of the mill cowchit.

[RB]

Shit is shit. PS by the way, I think you have to have the genetics along with the nutrition. Good chow make make up for some deficiencies. Look at racehorses for example. The whole sport is based on genetics and breeding. Easy to control the food but if you take a horse that is not bred from top end genetics you can feed that sumbitch all he wants of the best chow and he still won't win the Kentucky Derby.

[PoisonSnake]

True enough RB. Could be that the genetic potential has always been there from the subspecies of whitetails that were used to repopulate MO some time back. With the poor quality of soil/growing environment, the genetic potential was unable to be observed. I cannot remember, but I though some of the deer used to repopulate the rest of the state actually came from the Drury/Mincy Wildlife Area down near Powersite and that area. I thought also that they brought in a Wisconsin variety as well. Could be that they took them to Mincy and let them establish prior to restoration efforts. Could have dreamed all of this up as well. I know that the story of the area we used to hunt very near Blue Buck Tower south of Willow Springs was supposedly repopulated with a Wisconsin variety. I love hunting deer and turkey in the Ozarks.

[Warmouth]

The forker is going the long way around the barn. He's proving that through food plots, timber management, and selective harvesting deer, that you can improve the quality of hunting on a property???? Hasn't that been proven already? Are people selective cutting timber and planting food plots so that the hunting will be worse or remain the same quality?

He's reinventing the wheel, but at least he's put a lot of hard work into it.

After he's all done, his property still won't compete with the quality of bucks that the Drury's and Lakosky's have. The property and deer herd will be improved but he could have been improving a property and herd with better...uh...everything, soil content, genetics, available feed, etc.



It's the equivalent of spending $40 grand and a year of your life souping up an AMC Gremlin, imo. He could have had a forkin Camaro for the dollars and effort and actually have made some panties wet when he drove by.

In conclusion, refurbed Gremlin's do not make panties wet, and the worste location for deer you can find, is not the best location to start a deer farm. It was an idiotic plan, even if it is working, imo.


"I'm going to plant foodplots, plant trees, let bucks reach 5-7yr old and hunting will improve!" Well, no shit.

[RB]

WM, I love the Gremlin analogy. After all its about making paties wet, right. Just wait until your first mountain lion comes in at sunset and you'll see wet panties with lumps.

[Warmouth]

I didn't know mountain lions wore panties.