Season Changes?

[PoisonSnake]

I'm just using them as an example for all insurance agencies. Could be you, State Farm, whoever. Hell I don't know.

[Rafe Hollister]

Quiet, hobie. I'm jabbing at SF, not you.

[counts]

A litter.

[Great White Hunter]

PS - You don't even know enough about the insurance industry to describe the different levels of insurance. For example I work at an insurance "agency" that sells insurance on behalf of the insurance "company". Do you understand now?



Shut it Rafe, you mongaloid.

[Rafe Hollister]

He "works" at an insurance "agency" that "screws" customers on behalf of the insurance "company". This makes "Snowflake" a "middleman" who would have already been "elimated" by Geico.

[Great White Hunter]

"elimated"

What does that mean?

[PoisonSnake]

The only thing that I do know for a fact about insurance agencies is that you can be a dumbass and work there for a decent salary. You are a prime example of that.

[Great White Hunter]

Kind of the same way with the medical research field too.

[2BHNTN]

I have never pushed for unlimited doe season. I think it to be a bad idea, always have. 7 is plenty as Smitty spoke to. The only thing I was saying was to shoot a doe rather than a young buck, not shoot all the does you can.



CWD is a concern obviously. Too many deer in one place over and over is thought to be the breeding ground for this disease.



It's not the dam insurance company's.... Sheeze. It's the mass of individuals who could give a chit about deer, in fact many folks outright hate them and think of them as akin to rats. They couldn't give a rat's about hunting them, or seeing them. If they see them they think about the cash they loose to deer every year. One farmer I hunted on this year told me he guilted the MDC into granting him 20 nuisance permits after blowing his stack about his son having a wreck on the way to work one morning basically totalling his chevy sonoma. This guy was so pissed off about it he used every permit granted, and left em lay. Did not even skin em down and use the meat. Guess what ? I did not even see one deer on his place, this place looked awesome too. Had a small river running through it ( Indian Creek in Pike Co ), corn and beans, clover. I saw not one deer.



Individuals WITHOUT COLLISION INSURANCE calling the MDC, many of which are landowners, farmers from rural communities wanting to know how they plan on paying for the damage to their vehical that the MDC's deer caused. I have talked to Farmers who are flat pissed feeling that the MDC owns these deer and is being used as their business. Yet they are not held accountable for damaged crops, vehical collisions, and the like.



The MDC gets alot of pressure. I have no idea what they might do next but I hope it's more regulation and not a state that obliges wanton killing.

[hobiecat]

Kind of the same way with the medical research field too.

That didn't even make sense.

[Great White Hunter]

Thanks for calling me 2B since you were up hunting in Pike County.

[2BHNTN]

SF, I never took the biggun to call you for help. I certainly would have.

[Showme]

I didn't read all the posts and someone might have already said this. This is my take.



To start with....I spent much more time in the woods this year to kill two deer. It was also my sons first full year to hunt and I thought some of that might be accounted to his fidgeting and whatnot. I still am not convinced that I would have killed deer if he wasn't there because because everyday when we went back there were plenty of sign that the deer were being very nocturnal in that area. But, the second time I made it out without him, I killed two.



Anyway, this is the way I look at it. The MDC was open with what they wanted to do....bring the buck to doe ratio into check. Whatever they said it was, I am not sure now - something like 5 or 6 to 1 and they wanted 1 or 2 to 1 or something like that.



There are only two ways of doing that. Increase the bucks or decrease the does. This was the first year for the point restriction, so I don't think the buck numbers have gone up that much...at least yet. I would like to know how many 3"+ horn to 4 point on one side were killed in the years past to see what the number of extra deer "should" be in the heard.



Also, if you go from 5 to 1 to 2 to 1 you are taking a bunch of does out of the system. There is no way the number of bucks not killed can make up for that number...at least in a one year time period.



I am not a math wizz...but if there were 1 million deer in MO. 850,000 of those were doe and 150,000 were bucks - roughly. You wanted to close to even that number (1 to 1) or get close (2 to 1) it would take lets say making 650,000 doe to 350,000 bucks. You might take the doe population down quickly to that 650,000 number, but taking into consideration harvest of the legal bucks each year, I bet it takes quite a while to get the buck number to 350,000. That is the only way to get the herd number back to the 1 million figure used as an example.



I think people will see less deer for a number of years (3,4??) until that can be overcome, if it ever is.



Not pro or con - just my thoughts.



dab

[PoisonSnake]

2B: You and I seem to be on the same page. I didn't mean to imply that you were for an unlimited doe season. In fact, you and I had agreed a week or 2 ago that it did need to be more regulated. You are right that the farmers are flat pissed about the deer. No doubt about it. That is where I think the Farm Bureau comes into play, not necessarily your average insurance company. But, farmers can get nuisance tags under the table as you have clearly shown. The hunter that isn't a wanton killing SOB shouldn't have to suffer as well in my opinion. You are always gonna have a few idiots that will shoot every deer they see. The farmer can take steps to fix his problems through nuisance tags. Hunters, on the other hand, had better take a good look at themselves in the mirror. Killing every deer on your 15 acres of property just because MDC says you can isn't gonna solve poopoo. You have these fellows that actually believe they are doing the herd a favor by shooting every doe they see. Therefore, if the MDC has the herd in check as I have been told, they now need to reevaluate the unlimited tags. The way I view it, hunters are part of the problem as well (although I don't think many realize it per sey). Like I said, I once walked in those shoes. But, when I see everyone else killing a lot of does, I have to restrict a few things for sure. I like the antler regs in that they encourage a guy to shoot a doe ifn' it isn't a legal buck. But not 10 does. This thread was also talked about on MO Whitetails. I just wish the MDC would reconsider this 9 day doe season and unlimited tag issue. I don't know the solution, but I don't like unlimited tags in the fall and nearly unlimited nuisance tags in the summer. It seems as if it is lose/lose for the hunter in the grand scheme of things. PS



Dabs: What you say makes good sense. I appreciate that. But, I was surprised to hear LH say last year that the buck to doe ratio was much closer than what I thought it was. He said it was nearly 2 to 1. I guess that includes button bucks, because it has been clearly documented that in some years as many as 50% of antlered bucks will get whacked. Or, it could have been that I heard him entirely wrong. But, I am dang certain I did not. What I want here is some regulation. Farmers will shoot anything they see with nuisance tags. Bucks and does. Now, we have antler restrictions, but we are doing away with check stations. Unless they make it across the board (say north of the MO River), there is for the most part no way to keep an eye on these studies in my opinion. I believe we will see more counties this year for sure.

[Great White Hunter]

You don't have to kill a big one to call a fella.