“Reezen” to purchase a “Monster” masher…

[Warmouth]

Toby, I brought up the speeds of my rifles to show that I am not pushing the envelope. Both cartridges could shoot a capable deer bullet over 3300fps, but I don't see the need for that, in fact I find that type of speed detrimental and choose to shoot i the 2800-2900fps range. But, you missed that point.

Any way I look at it, the X-Force was plenty of bow to shoot a Griz or a moose, and if you want to upgrade from that, that is your business. I personally have no need or it.

I shoot arounnd 62-65ftlbs, if I remember, it's been a while since I've thought about it. Kids and women with very little hunting experience kill deer cleanly with set ups producing 35 +/-ft.lbs of energy.

In practical terms, once you are that over equipped, I don't see the benefit of going faster or shooting harder. I couldn't justify it as money well spent, that's all.

It is in the same relm to me as owning a 257 weatherby, and then buying a 257 STW, imo. Is the projectile moving that much faster really helping the outcome of the shot or the hunt?

Or in bow terms, you have a bow with one pin to 45yds, and now you want to buy a bow that can have one pin to 50yds. Wouldn't you be just as effective with the first bow, by using a range finder and holding a couple inches higher? If you have the range finder, what real advantage is one bow over the other?

[Limbshot]

Any of the bow manufacturers today can make a bow capable of these speeds if they wanted to drop the brace that low, PSE and HC were just the first ones to go for it. One thing I have learned in archery, you are never going to convince people that one bow is better than another just by talking about it. To each his own, shoot what you like, and don't try to cram what you shoot down other people's throats, because you are not going to change what they shoot by saying mine is better or faster. It is like all the brand bashing on AT, there is nothing more ignorant than saying "my bow is better than yours because..." What is good for one is not good for another. I guarantee you PSE will sell a ton of these bows, and good for them, that is why they designed it. At the same time, there are those out there that wouldn't touch that bow with a 10 foot pole because they want a bow that is more forgiving and "shooter friendly," even if that means giving up FPS. Does that make them wrong? Nope, to each his own. You like it, you shoot it! I think the speed they are getting is awesome, but is the bow really that much better than say a 33 inch ATA bow with a 7 inch brace rated to 330 FPS? Again, maybe for one, but not for another.

[Two Tall the Neanderthal]

To each his own. I'd like just as much as the next guy to give these arse peggers trouble for blowing money to get a bow that fast, but in reality we all love the hunting. Some of us just like to have cool chit and sometimes that cool chit blends well into our passion for the outdoors.

Does that jackeye having the coolest bow of anyone on the forums make him any less of a common vulva squeeze? Certainly not.

By the way I now have the coolest rifle of anybody on these forums. I now have in my Browning Mountain Titanium A-bolt. It weights in at 5 pound 8 ounces bare. I topped it off with the very best tally one-piece rings and Leupold VX3 2.5x8x36... I now have a 300wsm that's rigged and ready to go and the whole thing weighs less than 7 pounds. I can launch a 130 grain barnes TSX at 3500fps. The critters will think that biotch is the bad omen now.

[Limbshot]

Toby, serious question. If a bow set at 30 inch draw and 60 pounds shoots a 300 grain arrow at 344 FPS, what would that same bow shoot a 350 grain arrow if set at 70 pounds?

[Warmouth]

TTN- Are you going to give me those .257 cal bullets you have, or am I going to have to go down there and steal them from you fair and square?

Don't make me bring my beatin' stick.

[TobyfromMO]

To each his own. I'd like just as much as the next guy to give these arse peggers trouble for blowing money to get a bow that fast, but in reality we all love the hunting. Some of us just like to have cool chit and sometimes that cool chit blends well into our passion for the outdoors.

Does that jackeye having the coolest bow of anyone on the forums make him any less of a common vulva squeeze? Certainly not.

By the way I now have the coolest rifle of anybody on these forums. I now have in my Browning Mountain Titanium A-bolt. It weights in at 5 pound 8 ounces bare. I topped it off with the very best tally one-piece rings and Leupold VX3 2.5x8x36... I now have a 300wsm that's rigged and ready to go and the whole thing weighs less than 7 pounds. I can launch a 130 grain barnes TSX at 3500fps. The critters will think that biotch is the bad omen now.

Now this is absolutely ridiculous.

Why in the hell would you want to go out and buy the best equipment...reword...latest technology...reword...coolest equipment available?

Dang…my last trip for mountain billies I took a 30-30. It’s all you need. Though I speak from both sides of my mouth, as I did splurged for Horandy Lever Revolutions for that added downrange performance 'cause you just never know. Though I ended up stalking the animal to within 100yds because I don’t feel it’s very sporting to be effective at ranges beyond this. I was at roughly 13000ft and I believe I shook hands with Jesus.

[Limbshot]

Oh sure, ignore my question beotch.

[TobyfromMO]

Toby, serious question. If a bow set at 30 inch draw and 60 pounds shoots a 300 grain arrow at 344 FPS, what would that same bow shoot a 350 grain arrow if set at 70 pounds?

Are you talking about the same bow adjusted from 60 then to 70 or two separate bows one bottomed at 60 and the other bottomed at 70?

Ideally they should be the same. However, typically speaking, I’ve noticed bows perform a little more efficiently if near max settings. Does this make sense?

I would expect a 60lb’er maxed out, shooting 300gr arrows to hit IBO. I would expect a 70lb’er maxed out, shooting 350gr arrows to hit IBO. I would not expect a 70lb’er backed down to 60lbs to hit IBO with a 300gr arrow. It happens but not always.

[Limbshot]

Basically I was talking about two different bows. I completely agree that shooting a bow closer to max gives you better performance at the same weight than a bow with heavier limbs backed out to the same weight. That is why I switched to a 60 pound max bow, because I typically shoot just over 60 pounds. So a 70 pound bow set at 70 pounds shooting a 350 grain arrow would shoot the same speed as a 60 pound bow shooting a 300 grain arrow? I was curious if there would be a difference.

On a different topic. I am looking into getting lighter arrows for 3-D shooting to gain speed to close my pin gap for obvious reasons. Any idea what I would gain in speed losing 100 grains in arrow weight? Currently shooting 28 inch draw 60 pound weight and shooting a 430 grain arrow at 277 FPS.

[TobyfromMO]

Basically I was talking about two different bows. I completely agree that shooting a bow closer to max gives you better performance at the same weight than a bow with heavier limbs backed out to the same weight. That is why I switched to a 60 pound max bow, because I typically shoot just over 60 pounds. So a 70 pound bow set at 70 pounds shooting a 350 grain arrow would shoot the same speed as a 60 pound bow shooting a 300 grain arrow? I was curious if there would be a difference.

On a different topic. I am looking into getting lighter arrows for 3-D shooting to gain speed to close my pin gap for obvious reasons. Any idea what I would gain in speed losing 100 grains in arrow weight? Currently shooting 28 inch draw 60 pound weight and shooting a 430 grain arrow at 277 FPS.

LS…My guess is that you would be very close 320fps, give or take. Do you have any idea what the stated IBO of your bow is? That said, 300gr arrows are tough to build while still having tip weights and vane sizes adequate for hunting...i.e. retaining adequate front-of-center for good broadhead flight. There are so many different shafts in the market today I’m not sure of who produces the lightest shafts. I shoot Victory VForce Hv 300’s at 6.9gr. per inch. You being a 60lb’er you could likely get away with those same arrows but in the 400 spine @ 5.9gr per inch.

I’m a 29.5” draw and I believe I’m shooting roughly a 28.5” – 29” arrow. You being a 28” draw I’ll assume you can shoot a 27.5” arrow.

LS…There are so many different shafts in the market today I’m not sure of who is now the lightest but I shoot Victory VForce Hv 300’s at 6.9gr. per inch. You being a 60lb’er you could likely get away with those arrows but in the 400 spine @ 5.9gr per inch.

I’m a 29.5” draw and I believe I’m shooting roughly a 28.5” – 29” arrow. You being a 28” draw I’ll assume you can shoot a 27.5” arrow.

Victory Vforce HV 400
Arrow (27.5) = 162.25
Blazers (3) = 18
Insert = 11
Nock = 9
Glue (est.) = 3
Broad Head = 100
Total = 303.25

[Limbshot]

I am not talking about a hunting arrow. I am talking about a 3-D arrow. I am very pleased with my ACC's for my hunting arrows and will continue to shoot them.

The IBO for the Pro 3000 is 333 FPS, but that is at 30 inches, 60 pounds with a 300 grain arrow, not 70 pounds with a 350 grain arrow. That is taken directly from their website. They say they do that because they figure more people are pulling around that weight as opposed to 70 pounds . Whatever works I guess.

I do not care if I am right at 300 grains. I can lose 100 grains and still be at 330 total arrow weight, but obviously, the closer to 300, the more I gain, so long as they will still tune!!! I shoot 2 inch NAP quickspins, I do not know the grain weight, but can easily check, I also shoot 100 grain glue in tips, so I lose a little weight without an insert. I have looked at Victory arrows quite a but lately. I have major concerns about durability though. Some of the guys (and the gal) that I shoot with are freaking nock smokers. If I get it in there shooting first, typically, somebody is going to smack my arrow. I shot CE's for 2 seasons and got tired of the back ends splitting every time they even got bumped. How are they on durability? My ACC's are dang near indestructible, so if they come close to that, it would be a bonus!!!

[TobyfromMO]

I am not talking about a hunting arrow. I am talking about a 3-D arrow. I am very pleased with my ACC's for my hunting arrows and will continue to shoot them.

The IBO for the Pro 3000 is 333 FPS, but that is at 30 inches, 60 pounds with a 300 grain arrow, not 70 pounds with a 350 grain arrow. That is taken directly from their website. They say they do that because they figure more people are pulling around that weight as opposed to 70 pounds . Whatever works I guess.

I do not care if I am right at 300 grains. I can lose 100 grains and still be at 330 total arrow weight, but obviously, the closer to 300, the more I gain, so long as they will still tune!!! I shoot 2 inch NAP quickspins, I do not know the grain weight, but can easily check, I also shoot 100 grain glue in tips, so I lose a little weight without an insert. I have looked at Victory arrows quite a but lately. I have major concerns about durability though. Some of the guys (and the gal) that I shoot with are freaking nock smokers. If I get it in there shooting first, typically, somebody is going to smack my arrow. I shot CE's for 2 seasons and got tired of the back ends splitting every time they even got bumped. How are they on durability? My ACC's are dang near indestructible, so if they come close to that, it would be a bonus!!!

I won't say they are ACC's but thus far they have been more durable than any arrow I have ever shot.

For years I shot Gold Tip Series 22. They too are, or were, a light durable carbon shaft....namely a target shaft. They were awesome. However, my last dozen were nothing but trouble…pure shit. My nock ends were splitting just from repeated stress of being shot. My inserts were being driven up into the shaft due to the ft-lbs created from 370gr at 328fps. Gold Tip claimed I was using shit glue…bull crap…it was poor fitting inserts…these things flat sucked. A little research revealed Victory used to make GT’s Series 22 but GT had recently moved the manufacturing to a GT facility. Long story short…the way I see it…I went back to shooting Victory when I switched to Victory. Both Gold Tip and Victory are manufactured in Mexico but Victory’s plant is much closer to their Corporate Office, geographically, thus they have a better presence in the plant and much higher quality.

I shoot the V1’s which are about $110 a dozen.

[Limbshot]

Thanks for the info. I appreciate it. I'll do smoe mroe lookign around, but I may very well be shooting Victory arrows for the upcoming 3-D season.

[Two Tall the Neanderthal]

What does any of this Horsechit have to do with me having the coolest gun on these forums...



Description: • Receiver - Titanium, Matte finish, Glass bedded, Drilled and tapped for scope mounts • Barrel - Stainless steel, Matte finish, Free floating, Hand chambered, Target crown • Action - Bolt-action, 60º bolt lift, Stainless steel bolt face with composite bolt sleeve, Adjustable trigger, Detachable box magazine, Hinged floorplate, Top-tang safety • Stock - Bell and Carlson™ synthetic, Dura-Touch® Armor Coating, Mossy Oak® New Break-Up® • Features - Sling swivel studs installed, Pachmayr® Decelerator® recoil pad

[hunting170]

Granted that is an incredibly awesome gun TTtN. Having said that I must add that I have seen small children kill deer, with a rifle, on the Outdoor Channel. So what`s your point? <---------btw...this is me gettin the hell out of here while TTtN calculates windage, and elevation, to my house.